Let's raise taxes

A Forum for Discussions about Business and Economics.
george
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:39

21 Apr 2017, 12:51 #1

It looks like oil could have a dramatic drop in price yet to come. Great news?? Not really. lower gas prices means more driving, more traffic jams, more accidents, more pollution more highway damage not to mention the loss of very high paying high tech jobs and oil field manufacturing and so on. Now would be a golden opportunity to raise gas taxes say a dollar a gallon and pay for all the infrastructure projects that need to be done and put a lot of people to work that are losing job in oil and mining.. It would not bother me even a little bit, to pay more at the pump, if all the money were actually going to construction infrastructure projects. Of course many in the congress would try to siphon off 90 % of it to promote transgender bathrooms, welfare projects and every other nonsensical project there is. Not much in the way of political courage and common sense out there.
Reply

blackirishkarma
Joined: 09 Aug 2013, 03:20

21 Apr 2017, 17:26 #2

I agree. I read something a few years ago that made perfect sense to me along these lines. The suggestion was that we put a floor on the price of oil and gas. In other words, set a number that the price cannot drop below. Every time the price drops below that number take the money that is made on selling it at that price and put it towards infrastructure development. 

That would protect our own producers of oil in this country who have higher costs getting it out of the ground AND more importantly, it would allow us to develop an energy infrastructure that is based on a natural resource that we own in this country. One of the problems with alternative energy research is that every time it becomes feasible as the price of oil goes up, oil producers such as Saudi can simply open the taps and put their competitors out of business by selling oil cheaper than we can get alternative energy. If we put money into development of say natural gas, we would soon bring that price down low enough that it could replace oil in our system. I believe we already have that technology and the means to implement it and have for some time but those who own the oil leases in this country do not want that to happen. 

 
The increase of misery in the present state of society is parallel and equal to the increase of wealth..... Unknown member of Parliament 1840's
Reply

george
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:39

21 Apr 2017, 19:35 #3

This country just simply has no political courage. To raise taxes makes people like me mad, but try explaining why and specify just exactly where the money would be spent and most voters however grudgingly would most likely go along with it. It is going to take more than just protectionism to build this economy. Borrowing more money makes people like me look for civil war. A high gas tax properly spent would have a very beneficial effect on this economy. Of course the media would scream if the congress did such a thing and blame the republicans for high taxes. This country %#@@%@ off more golden opportunities for lack of political courage.
Reply

blackirishkarma
Joined: 09 Aug 2013, 03:20

22 Apr 2017, 14:18 #4

It's kind of an interesting discussion. You see a lack of political courage, I see corporate influence. In other words I don't think it is a lack of political courage as it is a lack of will to buck the people who bought and paid for our representatives election. The huge amount of money that goes into lobbying, political PAC's, and direct campaign contributions is corruption or old fashioned graft plain and simple. When it comes time to do the right thing for their constituents politicians simply roll over for whoever bought and paid for them. This is no different than it has always been in such cases. We have just legalized the system where they get their money. Instead of running them out of office or putting them in jail for being corrupt stooges we reward them with repeated election success for whoever can take in the most dirty money. 

I am afraid nothing is going to change until we get all this money out of politics with some major campaign finance and lobbying regulation changes. Speaking from personal experience, BOTH parties concentrate almost exclusively on raising money because they know it is how you stay in power. 
The increase of misery in the present state of society is parallel and equal to the increase of wealth..... Unknown member of Parliament 1840's
Reply

blackirishkarma
Joined: 09 Aug 2013, 03:20

22 Apr 2017, 14:33 #5

Oh... and there are ways to do it. I would recommend all Congressional salaries be instantly raised to $500,000 a year.
At election time, I would also give each candidate with a set number of legal voters names on a petition a set amount of money to use in their campaign. They can spend no more than this amount on election or face imprisonment.

At the same time I would make it a crime punishable by immediate removal from office and imprisonment if they accept one red cent of money or valued service from any source whatsoever while they are in office. Every expenditure and every financial transaction of any kind while they are in office would be monitored by the government accounting office. 

After they leave office they could have no income whatsoever outside of their pension or they would automatically give up all rights to pension funds, government health insurance, or government provided security. 

The idea is to go back to public servants instead of thieves in office sold to the highest bidder. As soon as my "ruler of the world" ring arrives in the mail I expect to implement all of these laws at once. 
The increase of misery in the present state of society is parallel and equal to the increase of wealth..... Unknown member of Parliament 1840's
Reply

george
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:39

22 Apr 2017, 17:31 #6

Your assessment is quite correct. But still facing the real problems is something neither party is willing to do. The problem with the auto industry is that their is just too many cars on the road. Solution - raise the price of gas. Here come the democrats screaming war on the poor and gays and blacks etc. To suggest we remove some of the traffic would mean, as you have said, money flowing from oil and the auto industry to combat the solution. It seems we just can't ever face up to common sense solutions .
Reply

blackirishkarma
Joined: 09 Aug 2013, 03:20

23 Apr 2017, 17:11 #7

The problem with too many automobiles seems to be a simple lack of effective mass transit in most parts of the country. Many of our largest cities do have effective mass transit but almost none exists in smaller cities and towns. Many other parts of the world depend heavily on such systems throughout their country and they are highly effective and efficient. 

Once again, there are reasons for this; not the least of which is the corporate influence of automakers. Every time something like this is considered here there is a loud objection from that group followed by promises of the loss of jobs that will be associated with such an undertaking. Of course there will be a loss of jobs but there will also be an increase in jobs in building and maintaining an effective mass transit system. 
The increase of misery in the present state of society is parallel and equal to the increase of wealth..... Unknown member of Parliament 1840's
Reply

george
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:39

23 Apr 2017, 20:17 #8

I have often thought that one way to make serious payment on the national debt would be to tax energy. All energy because everyone uses it, however that would require a balanced budget amendment and legislation to prevent any of the money from being siphoned off for useless projects. But that kind of legislation will most likely never happen. An upside of high energy would of course be more efficient energy use. It would be nice to see people using bicycles instead of driving which would also mean a healthier lifestyle. And like you said more efficient use of mass transit. To me it is a golden opportunity going down the drain.
Reply

blackirishkarma
Joined: 09 Aug 2013, 03:20

24 Apr 2017, 18:29 #9

There are lots of ways to fix the debt issue. Probably the easiest one is to close corporate tax loopholes. What most people don't understand is that even though we have a high corporate tax rate, no one pays at that rate because there are so many loopholes. I wrote something in here a few years ago where I checked the top ten corporations on the Forbes list and the average tax rate they were actually paying was around 4%. Lower it to 25% which is below the international average, close all the loopholes and we are very quickly out of debt. It really is that simple. 

Historically, corporate taxes have been 35% of national revenue. They are now well below 10%. It isn't hard to see where it changed; right when Reagan came into office. It also isn't hard to put together that this is exactly when the national debt began to climb. A lot of people understand all of this. Unfortunately, no one on either side of aisle wants to really change it because corporations are who bought and paid for their seats in Congress. 
The increase of misery in the present state of society is parallel and equal to the increase of wealth..... Unknown member of Parliament 1840's
Reply

george
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:39

24 Apr 2017, 22:27 #10

I have often thought that the best way to compete with foreign companies is not to tax corporations at all. That does not mean the people who work for the corporation does not pay taxes. If the CEO has a company car then he should pay taxes on it's use. If the company has an airplane and he flies on it then he pays taxes on the flight. That would make corporations much more efficient. It is my belief that no one or entity should be tax exempt.  However whatever the solution  , we are reaching the point of no return on the national debt and of course no politician wants to talk about it. So much for political courage.
Reply